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Obama's Stimulus Package ...

Started by AstroMart, 04/07/2018 10:51PM

Poll Results:


0 Total Votes
Posted 02/18/2009 09:21PM #10
Our Grandchildren were already paying for the trillion dollars of war debt. How is it any different. Funny how it didn't matter 7 years ago.

One day the "special interests" will wake up realize Government is not needed and abolish it. They have already been whittling it down for the last 30 years or so. No profit in government. Profit is good, right?

When this happens, the indentured citizens will not be able to stop it.

--------------------
My astro images...
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v287/Raven911/Astrophotos/
http://www.eye-of-the-raven.blogspot.com/

Posted 02/18/2009 10:07PM #11
Specter is on the "gotta go" list.
And I agree, many more need to be "flushed" down the toilet where they belong. :S
Posted 02/18/2009 10:25PM #12
Paul McCarty said:

Our Grandchildren were already paying for the trillion dollars of war debt. How is it any different. Funny how it didn't matter 7 years ago.

So that makes it alright to dig them in deeper?? Gee, people hated Bush and the GOP for that, but it's fine and dandy if Obama and the socialists do it?? It's sad that our grandchildren will be saddled with this debt. What will be in Obama's legacy is he also indebted their Great Grandchildren! I don't know about you, but that sickens me..

Paul McCarty said:

One day the "special interests" will wake up realize Government is not needed and abolish it. They have already been whittling it down for the last 30 years or so.

They have, it's Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and "crew". Just look closely at what they are doing and whom they are doing it for.. Themselves and their "friends"!

Paul McCarty said:
No profit in government. Profit is good, right?

The Govt. is NOT supposed to be making "profit" from the citizens.. And they're NOT supposed to be strong-arming the profits FROM the citizens either!

Paul McCarty said:
When this happens, the indentured citizens will not be able to stop it.

That's why We The People need to stem the tide now.

It's really sad that people hammered the GOP supporters during the campaigns with "fear mongering". Boy, Obama has been doing that deliberately to try and garner support for his SPENDING bill (called stimulus). Yes, OBAMA HAS BEEN FEAR MONGERING! Telling people the country WILL FAIL if they don't pass this "plan".. "Disaster looms if we don't invest now".. What a bunch of crap!
Posted 02/19/2009 12:57AM | Edited 02/19/2009 02:31AM #13
Several points

1. The cost of the Iraq war is less than the $800 Billion porker bill that ensures the growth of government. The cost of the Iraq war has also been spread out over 6 years, vs. 1 large lump sum - which will probably set a new "baseline" for continued spending, therefore the Congressional Budget Office projects that the $800 Billion porker bill will cost almost $4 Trillion over the next 10 years, if we include interest costs and continue the top 20 "programs" on a yearly basis.

2. The cost of the Iraq war is a sore point to those who wish Saddam was still in power, able to terrorize his own people while getting billions of dollars through the corrupt UN "Food for Oil" program ...and while slipping millions of dollars to terrorists. They claim that the people of Iraq would be better off under the rule of Saddam ...

3. The Iraq war is a convenient straw man for liberals to beat upon - if you ignore all the concerns that they had about Saddam, his WMD programs (which he did have), and how he would be a big risk if nothing was done. ONLY when we didn't find ACTIVE WMD programs, did the liberals then claim that they were deceived and that we should never have gone to war. These sort of people would have caused us to loose to Germany and Japan.

4. The typical liberal rant is that Bush spent billions unnecessarily - and then they rant about all the programs that he underfunded ....and they complain about his Education program (No Child Left Behind), Senior Citizen Drug program, and they complain that the programs were too small. Then, after whining about the big budget busting spending, their solution is to ..... spend even more money!!

5. And finally - they complain about how Bush, with his deregulation, caused the financial meltdown ... all while trying to keep the public from finding out how Bush requested - over 20 times, more regulations on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the liberals filibustered any stiffening of regulations. They don't want the public to know that the major "de-regulation" was a bi-partisan plan that was signed by Bill Clinton in 1998. They don't want the public to know how much the Community Reinvestment Act (pushed by Carter, expanded by Clinton) was what sowed the seeds of the sub-prime loans, giving NINJA loans to applicants who should never have been given a mortgage, etc .....and all this did was to create an artificial housing price bubble that popped in early 2008 ....and that Bush and Republicans were warning about the problem in 2003, 2004, 2005, etc., but the Democrats stopped any action from happening.

So .... will the $800 Billion porker program work .... that depends on what is expected.
Recall that in 1979 - 1980 - when we had double digit inflation and unemployment - far worse that the problems we are presently having (in spite of the lies that Obama, the Democrats claim) ... Ronald Reagan became President, and cut taxes, cut regulations on private enterprise, encouraged the private sector to grow ...and about 2 1/2 years later, the economy started a long-term boom. Pres. Reagan was successful with a program of smaller government, less spending, etc.

Then recall that in 1933, FDR became president. He continued (and increased) the big government policies of Hoover - more taxes, more government spending, bigger programs (sort of an Obama-lite) ...and 8 years later, he too could look back with success. Their goal wasn't to fix the economy, because unemployment was still high, taxes were high, the depression continued on ....but he created a welfare mentality amongst the populace that would blindly vote Democrat ...and keep the Democrats in power for many many years.

So - Obama's program MIGHT be as successful as FDR ...in generating a nation of sheep who figure big government is the solution - even if it means becoming another socialist Europe, with low job growth, high unemployment and high taxes.
But I don't think the stimulus package will help our nation.
Posted 02/19/2009 04:11AM #14
I hate to be the one to point this out, but if what you say is true and the economy would bob back to the surface like a cork without the stimulus, then the stimulus will appear to work.

The data seems to argue otherwise. Our finance sector has run screaming off a cliff and we've just got giant wrecks of banks. I've seen housing prices in my state drop by 30% in the last year. Unemployment is skyrocketing, and this happened before the man in office changed.

Personally, I'm afraid we don't know what the worst is, yet. It seems there has been a long period where there was nobody minding the store. Criminals and con men took over. And there isn't a stripe of politician up to now who has done anything about it.

-Rich

Jeffrey Counsil said:

Paul McCarty said:

Our Grandchildren were already paying for the trillion dollars of war debt. How is it any different. Funny how it didn't matter 7 years ago.

So that makes it alright to dig them in deeper?? Gee, people hated Bush and the GOP for that, but it's fine and dandy if Obama and the socialists do it?? It's sad that our grandchildren will be saddled with this debt. What will be in Obama's legacy is he also indebted their Great Grandchildren! I don't know about you, but that sickens me..

Paul McCarty said:

One day the "special interests" will wake up realize Government is not needed and abolish it. They have already been whittling it down for the last 30 years or so.

They have, it's Obama, Reid, Pelosi, and "crew". Just look closely at what they are doing and whom they are doing it for.. Themselves and their "friends"!

Paul McCarty said:
No profit in government. Profit is good, right?

The Govt. is NOT supposed to be making "profit" from the citizens.. And they're NOT supposed to be strong-arming the profits FROM the citizens either!

Paul McCarty said:
When this happens, the indentured citizens will not be able to stop it.

That's why We The People need to stem the tide now.

It's really sad that people hammered the GOP supporters during the campaigns with "fear mongering". Boy, Obama has been doing that deliberately to try and garner support for his SPENDING bill (called stimulus). Yes, OBAMA HAS BEEN FEAR MONGERING! Telling people the country WILL FAIL if they don't pass this "plan".. "Disaster looms if we don't invest now".. What a bunch of crap!
Posted 02/19/2009 05:01AM #15
Then what? We need to move this to a positive statement of what IS rather than negative proof. We've got the "I'm not X, so you should imagine my views are what you would approve of" representation as it is. There has to be some indication the people going to Washington are there to represent the people, not push some arbitrary agenda. Do you feel like you are being represented? Why not? I know I sure as heck never called up my congressional delegation to tell them I wanted a capital gains tax cut. I never called them up to tell them I wanted bankruptcy law modified to favor credit card companies and landlords, so people let their houses get foreclosed on rather than skip credit card payments and stores would liquidate instead of trying to reorganize. I never called them up to say I wanted Credit Default Swaps to be unregulated. I tend to doubt you did, either. We had pharmaceutical companies writing the laws to govern themselves. In return, we got pills you take daily for the rest of your life to avoid restless legs instead of a cure for heart disease.

Someone is going to Washington. Who will it be, and what is it they are being sent there to do?

-Rich

Jeffrey Counsil said:

Specter is on the "gotta go" list.
And I agree, many more need to be "flushed" down the toilet where they belong. :S
Posted 02/19/2009 05:57AM #16
You guys are still arguing about government. I work for the federal government. It has been cut so bad in the years since Reagan that it is almost non-functional in many areas. There has been a concerted effort to get rid of it. It doesn't seem to matter which party, as they both have done it, just one is worse than the other at it. At least the D's don't want to privatize it all so their puppet masters make obscene profits from it. Do you really want Blackwater to run the US? That is where we have been heading for the last 20 years. No oversight, no citizen input, everything is commoditized and is sold to the people, and nothing is provided the citizenry in anyway so profits can be maximized and liabilities externalized to the lowest common denominator.

This problem goes way beyond Red and Blue. That is just how we are kept fighting amongst ourselves.

I am absolutely appalled at what has become our once great government. When I have to provide toilet paper and basic needs for my personnel out of my own pocket, there is a huge problem. I have been having to do this off and on for the last 10 years. None of our equipment works to do our job, and there is no way to purchase new. However, defense contractors can come in and get a blank check, go out of business, come in again under a different name, and get another blank check for the same project. Not one eyelash is batted on this. It isn't corruption or incompetence, because the rules have been changed to allow it.

It makes me ill. I am sorry, but our issues go way beyond Red or Blue. You can keep arguing who is right or wrong, but in the end, no one wins. Neither are right. Until we can look beyond simple politics, we are doomed to be slaves.

--------------------
My astro images...
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v287/Raven911/Astrophotos/
http://www.eye-of-the-raven.blogspot.com/

Posted 02/19/2009 09:44PM #17
Richard, I DO e-mail and call my "representatives" quite often! Why don't you? After all, that's what they are there for..

Richard Wright said:

Then what? We need to move this to a positive statement of what IS rather than negative proof. We've got the "I'm not X, so you should imagine my views are what you would approve of" representation as it is. There has to be some indication the people going to Washington are there to represent the people, not push some arbitrary agenda. Do you feel like you are being represented? Why not? I know I sure as heck never called up my congressional delegation to tell them I wanted a capital gains tax cut. I never called them up to tell them I wanted bankruptcy law modified to favor credit card companies and landlords, so people let their houses get foreclosed on rather than skip credit card payments and stores would liquidate instead of trying to reorganize. I never called them up to say I wanted Credit Default Swaps to be unregulated. I tend to doubt you did, either. We had pharmaceutical companies writing the laws to govern themselves. In return, we got pills you take daily for the rest of your life to avoid restless legs instead of a cure for heart disease.

Someone is going to Washington. Who will it be, and what is it they are being sent there to do?

-Rich

Jeffrey Counsil said:

Specter is on the "gotta go" list.
And I agree, many more need to be "flushed" down the toilet where they belong. :S
Posted 02/20/2009 02:08AM #18
We are screwed no matter what side of the aisle you agree with. Spending is not the way to fix this problem though. If we are going to go even further into debt, why not give working, tax paying Americans large low interest loans? Talk about economic stimulus! If you own a home, have children, and have a REAL work history that meets some sort of minimum then you should qualify for some help. Can't pay your mortgage and you were not one of the idiots that took a variable rate loan...then let the the liberals buy your mortgage, and offer you a very, very low fixed rate. Can't feed your kids, or put them through college then let the left wingers pay for that too, and keep their grubby little paws out of medicine. The government doesn't work, for you or me just for themselves. I'm in a crunch now and I expect things to get much, much worse but I don't want the government "fixing" my problems. Investing in education and regulating corrupt banks will fix everything sooner than pouring a trillion dollars down the crapper.

Chris
Posted 02/20/2009 06:09AM | Edited 02/20/2009 06:11AM #19
Not sure loans would be a way out either. That is how we got into this mess. It is a house of cards, you pull one card and they all fall - doesn't matter which card. Too many people have been under the selfish assumption for too long that if it doesn't affect them they don't care. They were making crazy profits and having unrealistic loan policies because Mo' Money is good. What is to say it won't happen again? Private interest for pure profit is never good for the general public, though it can be very great for the individual. What are we to do? Is the individual more important than protecting our society as a whole? Do we let our world crumble because companies want unregulated profit? There has to be a balance, which we have lost somewhere along the way.

We have to stop seeing ourselves as enemies (left wing/right wing). We are all in this mess together. You can't have anything for free. We have been pushing off our taxes,the cost of doing business, and conducting barely legal business practices and it has now caught up to us. Pay now or pay later. You can't get around it. Don't support the government and you have cruddy roads and infrastructure. Push it off to the state governments and they cut social programs. Wait for the private sector to do it, and they won't until there are stupid profits to be made and nothing gets done. Nothing comes for free. This money they are spending right now is the money we haven't spent for the last 30 years in the name of smaller government.

This is a new world, the old ways are dead. People just don't realize yet. What has worked for the last quarter century will not work for the next.

I would not be surprised if during the next election cycle, a new party emerges representing this.


--------------------
My astro images...
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v287/Raven911/Astrophotos/
http://www.eye-of-the-raven.blogspot.com/