Bail out fails

Bail out fails

Yeah, I kinda think good, and voted that way but..

It's STILL oh crap!

Time to lose some serious money. If only I were God... the wrath!

Yeah, I think this "stick it to 'em" sentiment will dissipate right along with economic growth, jobs, and savings. Life's not fair. Checked your retirement accounts lately?

Well, there's the stick it to 'em, but I think most people were really reacting more with, "They need WHAT to save them?" And then when you look at what was proposed, it doesn't sound like anything so much as a bizarre money grab. So, though the Republicans asked for it, there is also enough of the party of Reagan left in them to shoot it down.

I tend to suspect if it passed, this bill would have had the exact same effect as the economic stimulus payments did earlier this year. That is, the underlying problem with the dying mortgages means they'd be back with their hands out for another $700 billion 6 months later.

Mike Hosea said:

Yeah, I think this "stick it to 'em" sentiment will dissipate right along with economic growth, jobs, and savings. Life's not fair. Checked your retirement accounts lately?

I've got to preface my statements with my personal political bias. I am a dire hard core fiscal conservative and a social liberal. Basically the opposite of George Bush.

If I believed that throwing 700 billion dollars would solve the underlying economic problem I would support it. The market lost 1 trillion dollars on Monday, so it is really small potatoes (did I just say that 700 billion dollars was small potatoes??!?!). However given the total lack of confidence I have in this administration, who has cried wolf several times before, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. The Fed has botched this up so bad and now they are crying for congress and the tax payer to come to the rescue. Too little too late. I'm not about to hand these guys the keys to the financial kingdom to in essence create "The Peoples Republic of The United States". We are being scared into socialism and we don't even see it!!! Wake up!

I think the reality is that we are in for some hard times regardless. It is time to face the music, pay the piper and realize that our life style has been created on borrowed money. It is time to tighten the belt and pay some bills. The party is over folks and throwing more credit cards at the band won't make it last much longer. We all must be called to sacrifice to get us on stable financial ground again. Time for fiscal conservatives to get back the Republican party from the Christian right. What a disaster they have brought to the party.

Thanks for letting me vent...

Quote:"We are being scared into socialism and we don't even see it!!! Wake up!"

Democratic Party = Social Programs

Social Programs = Democratic Socialism

Let's face it, anytime you have social programs where we continually give handouts to any groups, they have this mindset of entitlements.

Don't get me wrong, I don't see anything wrong with some social programs such as social security, etc. The problem I have with any of these programs is that they go too far in granting too many people or the wrong people with what the program was originally intended for.

Well, sometimes I wish people would wake up. But what all of us Americans need is a good douse of loss such as this to realize that you can't go on forever buying things on credit all the time. Sooner or later this was going to catch up to us. Greed makes one blind. How many times have we been told by our parents or grandparents who have lived through the Great Depression that you need to save. So many of us said they didn't know what the heck they were talking about or that oh it'll never happen again.

I have been preaching to my friends at work at the steel company I used to work for that the whole IRA or 401K concept is going to fall flat on its face someday. My notion of this was based on the increasing numbers of "baby boomers" retiring rising rapidly in the early 2000's as they become of age and the flow of outgoing cash would be faster than it going in. And coupled with say a bear market, will drive us into another depression.

What really frightens me is how one candidate claims he is going to "redistribute wealth" in this nation. I would be VERY leary on anyone who says this. 8O This sounds like some kind of socialist concept. This same candidate cannot even begin describing his plan. People just keep cheering him on though.... Sounds like something out of the history books during the mid 1930's Germany when one certain individual started preaching for political power.

Len

Hey Leonard,

Lighten up. The redistribution of wealth is happening right now. So don't be afraid of the person who states what is clearly true. Fear the one who claims a lie is real, and he will do what he clearly cannot.

-Rich

Leonard Marek said:

Quote:"We are being scared into socialism and we don't even see it!!! Wake up!"

Democratic Party = Social Programs

Social Programs = Democratic Socialism

Let's face it, anytime you have social programs where we continually give handouts to any groups, they have this mindset of entitlements.

Don't get me wrong, I don't see anything wrong with some social programs such as social security, etc. The problem I have with any of these programs is that they go too far in granting too many people or the wrong people with what the program was originally intended for.

Well, sometimes I wish people would wake up. But what all of us Americans need is a good douse of loss such as this to realize that you can't go on forever buying things on credit all the time. Sooner or later this was going to catch up to us. Greed makes one blind. How many times have we been told by our parents or grandparents who have lived through the Great Depression that you need to save. So many of us said they didn't know what the heck they were talking about or that oh it'll never happen again.

I have been preaching to my friends at work at the steel company I used to work for that the whole IRA or 401K concept is going to fall flat on its face someday. My notion of this was based on the increasing numbers of "baby boomers" retiring rising rapidly in the early 2000's as they become of age and the flow of outgoing cash would be faster than it going in. And coupled with say a bear market, will drive us into another depression.

What really frightens me is how one candidate claims he is going to "redistribute wealth" in this nation. I would be VERY leary on anyone who says this. 8O This sounds like some kind of socialist concept. This same candidate cannot even begin describing his plan. People just keep cheering him on though.... Sounds like something out of the history books during the mid 1930's Germany when one certain individual started preaching for political power.

Len

No I mean really good.

Stick it to em??? Its us that'll get it stuck to if this doesn't work...when you can't get a car loan, or a mortgage, or a line of credit for your business cause your local bank can't lend cause its assets have been marked to market, i.e., zero, you think that's going to affect rich people? Its going to affect us, man..

Yesterday, I had a very interesting discussion with a person who was one of the top bond traders for Bear Stearns in the 1970s-90s - he ran their NYC bond trading operation (retired, his foundation lost millions when the stock collapsed this year). He knows the credit markets. He believes that the government can make money buying these "toxic" assets, holding the underlying houses until the market heals somewhat, and selling them prudently over time - perhaps 5 years. He also believes that without intervention, 300-400 local banks will fail this year, resulting in untold job loss and greater expense for the government by far than any losses possible from the rescue plan. He had many things to say about the people and the firms that got us into this mess (Alan Greenspan seemed to top his chart of all-time bad guys), but mostly what stuck with me was that he thinks that without intervention, our economy will be affected negatively for at least a decade.

And yes, this guy is very rich indeed. But he deplores what happened to his market even more, if possible, than you or I do; he believes that many of the players should go to jail, and that eventually they will....

But wait a minute, this $830 billion dollar bailout is all borrowed, too. How can you go to wall street with a request to borrow $830 billion to buy bad debts from wall street, when the problem is they don't have any money to lend to anyone? Am I the only person in America who sees what's wrong with that? It can't possibly work any more than going to someone who is being foreclosed on because they can't make payments and asking them to lend you 5 months worth of payments so you can subsidize their house payment. Of course that won't work. If the world finance system has the cash for us to borrow $830 billion, then they don't need a bailout. If they don't, our taxes skyrocket next year or the government just prints do many dollars they become worthless. Which is it? This bailout is bad, bad, bad.

Morgan Spangle said:

No I mean really good.

Stick it to em??? Its us that'll get it stuck to if this doesn't work...when you can't get a car loan, or a mortgage, or a line of credit for your business cause your local bank can't lend cause its assets have been marked to market, i.e., zero, you think that's going to affect rich people? Its going to affect us, man..

Yesterday, I had a very interesting discussion with a person who was one of the top bond traders for Bear Stearns in the 1970s-90s - he ran their NYC bond trading operation (retired, his foundation lost millions when the stock collapsed this year). He knows the credit markets. He believes that the government can make money buying these "toxic" assets, holding the underlying houses until the market heals somewhat, and selling them prudently over time - perhaps 5 years. He also believes that without intervention, 300-400 local banks will fail this year, resulting in untold job loss and greater expense for the government by far than any losses possible from the rescue plan. He had many things to say about the people and the firms that got us into this mess (Alan Greenspan seemed to top his chart of all-time bad guys), but mostly what stuck with me was that he thinks that without intervention, our economy will be affected negatively for at least a decade.

And yes, this guy is very rich indeed. But he deplores what happened to his market even more, if possible, than you or I do; he believes that many of the players should go to jail, and that eventually they will....

Dan Lamson said:

I wish they could dump all the stupid earmarks they have on the senate version, and paying best value over time will never break even!

I wish they would define the basic premise of the bailout before writting a check for $700 billion plus. The bill that was just approved by the senate contains the following language:

(d) Program Guidelines.--Before the earlier of the end of the 2-business-day period beginning on the date of the first purchase of troubled assets pursuant to the authority under this section or the end of the 45-day period beginning on the date of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall publish program guidelines, including the following:

(1) Mechanisms for purchasing troubled assets.

(2) Methods for pricing and valuing troubled assets.

(3) Procedures for selecting asset managers.

(4) Criteria for identifying troubled assets for purchase.

So they have approved a bill without any knowledge of what they are buying, how much they are paying for it, or even how the value will be assessed. Clearly, these guys couldn't care less what they spend it on, they just want to get their hands on $700 billion dollars of our money.