Hello all I just sold a lx200 and purchased a toa130. My question is what would be a good ccd camera match for this scope. Sbigs look good but I really don't want to get a second mortgage for the purchase of camera and accessories. Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks John
Newbie needs help
Started by jpk1018, 02/20/2006 01:43AM
Posted 02/20/2006 01:43AM
Opening Post
Posted 02/20/2006 02:39AM
#1
John,
What is the TOA mounted on? I hope/presume it's at least on an EM200 or a G-11 mount; those are the minimums I would consider for this scope.
If you want something to cut your imaging teeth on, perhaps something like a Meade DSI/DSI Pro perhaps, or an Orion Starshoot (deep sky version)? I have not confirmed this, but I've read (and verified to some extent by checking the chip specs) that the Starshoot uses the same chip as the Starlight Express MX-7C.
The TOA really calls for an SBIG - you can always start off with a used ST-7E. What's great about this is that once you are ready for an upgrade, an ST-7 can be upgraded to an ST-8XME. It's hard to ignore the self-guiding nature of these cameras.
HTH,
Eric
What is the TOA mounted on? I hope/presume it's at least on an EM200 or a G-11 mount; those are the minimums I would consider for this scope.
If you want something to cut your imaging teeth on, perhaps something like a Meade DSI/DSI Pro perhaps, or an Orion Starshoot (deep sky version)? I have not confirmed this, but I've read (and verified to some extent by checking the chip specs) that the Starshoot uses the same chip as the Starlight Express MX-7C.
The TOA really calls for an SBIG - you can always start off with a used ST-7E. What's great about this is that once you are ready for an upgrade, an ST-7 can be upgraded to an ST-8XME. It's hard to ignore the self-guiding nature of these cameras.
HTH,
Eric
Posted 02/20/2006 05:12PM
#2
You should've continued to follow Ron Wodaski's advice: "If your on a tight budget I would much rather have a cheap camera, a cheap scope and put my money on a good quality mount." The GM8 is ok but your scope is too heavy, period. And now you have to buy a cheap camera. Sell the 130, get a Tak 102 and take the rest of the money and get an ST2000XCM. Thats the color version, no extra crap to buy. Excuse me if that sounds rude but I, like Stu and many, many others have spent thousands of dollars any many a frustrating night trying to get that Holy Grale of images with equipment that just won't cut it.
Posted 02/20/2006 07:53PM
#3
Hi John,
Question is.....is this your passion, or are you just wanting to try imaging with a CCD?
If you just want to try it out - find a club or hook up with an established imager. Then you could borrow equipment and see if you like it - better yet rent some time with Arnie (Rent-a Scope) and really give it a go with big time gear. If you are your basic equipment junkie (I should be in a 12 step program to deal with my equipment addiction) all that stuff won't be very satisfying - cause you want to own and set-up the equipment. If that is true - find a cheap camera (like an older ST7 mono - about $600-800) and start to learn, if you don't like it you can always sell the camera again. Or you can pick up a Cannon Rebel and get you feet wet that way. Your mount is likely undersized......but you can get an image, with it and see if you enjoy doing it. As another cheap option, try a webcam and do some planetary work. Just remember that in addition to the camera - you need software, and that can be an expensive piece of the puzzle.
If this is something that you really want to get into, and you want to produce images like Rob Gendler (or some of the other imagers out there) - brace yourself, because it is going to cost some money. But once you get over the initial sticker shock.....it is not THAT bad compared to other hobbies (think about buying a boat, race car, motorcycle, even the cost of a shotgun and a years worth of sporting clays). You already have a GREAT scope, but you'll need to upgrade your mount, buy a cooled camera, add a stack of software, and spend years learning how to make it all work. You can do it in stages.....or you can take the big jump now - but you will have several false starts and adjustments to make to your equipment as you learn.
I don't want to discourage you, but you also need to understand that this is a remarkably difficult hobby. Don't expect to add a camera and start producing stunning images overnight - it will be a challenge to even get an object on the chip for the first couple of evenings......and then you want to try to get that object focused. If after all this, the cost doesn't scare you off and the challenge makes you want to get started tonight - you may have found a hobby. Start your equipment savings account right now - you're going to need it.
Question is.....is this your passion, or are you just wanting to try imaging with a CCD?
If you just want to try it out - find a club or hook up with an established imager. Then you could borrow equipment and see if you like it - better yet rent some time with Arnie (Rent-a Scope) and really give it a go with big time gear. If you are your basic equipment junkie (I should be in a 12 step program to deal with my equipment addiction) all that stuff won't be very satisfying - cause you want to own and set-up the equipment. If that is true - find a cheap camera (like an older ST7 mono - about $600-800) and start to learn, if you don't like it you can always sell the camera again. Or you can pick up a Cannon Rebel and get you feet wet that way. Your mount is likely undersized......but you can get an image, with it and see if you enjoy doing it. As another cheap option, try a webcam and do some planetary work. Just remember that in addition to the camera - you need software, and that can be an expensive piece of the puzzle.
If this is something that you really want to get into, and you want to produce images like Rob Gendler (or some of the other imagers out there) - brace yourself, because it is going to cost some money. But once you get over the initial sticker shock.....it is not THAT bad compared to other hobbies (think about buying a boat, race car, motorcycle, even the cost of a shotgun and a years worth of sporting clays). You already have a GREAT scope, but you'll need to upgrade your mount, buy a cooled camera, add a stack of software, and spend years learning how to make it all work. You can do it in stages.....or you can take the big jump now - but you will have several false starts and adjustments to make to your equipment as you learn.
I don't want to discourage you, but you also need to understand that this is a remarkably difficult hobby. Don't expect to add a camera and start producing stunning images overnight - it will be a challenge to even get an object on the chip for the first couple of evenings......and then you want to try to get that object focused. If after all this, the cost doesn't scare you off and the challenge makes you want to get started tonight - you may have found a hobby. Start your equipment savings account right now - you're going to need it.
Mike
http://www.DarkSights.com
Posted 02/22/2006 01:07PM
#4
Hi John,
Ok, I'm a newby too, I've been imaging less than a year now, and had similar aprehentions a year ago. I started using a SV102 that was originally bought exclusively for visual use, mounted on a GM8, had to buy a new laptop because I din't have one, and wound up paying too much for a used parallel ST8 on astromart.
Here's what I've learned so farr:
1) Great equipment makes a big difference, but you have to learn how to use it too. The only way to do that is to go image something, and you can't image anything untill you have a complete system, that is compatible and works together. Every system, no matter how expensive, will have to be tuned and de-bugged. Expect to have problems and frustrations, plan to minimize them if you can, but be prepared to invest more time and money to remedy them when they occur. The initial investment to get started in imaging is intimidating for us mere mortals with modest incomes, use the time while you're saving, to read all you can before hand, and deliberately plan how to spend your money to build the best system you can afford! Because unless you're rich, you won't be able to afford to buy and sell CCD cameras and high end equatorial mounts like some people do eyepieces.
2) The most important component of any imaging system is the mount. Nothing else matters if the mount sucks. I spent an additional $400 on accessories, just to get my GM8 to work for autoguiding, and it did work fairly well. It was the weakest most limiting component of my system though, so... My first major equipment change, was to sell my GM8 and buy an EM200 Temma. Invest the majority of your money in the best mount you can afford, and anything else you scrimp on, will be MUCH easier to make due with. I can now comfortably wait, as I consider whether to try to upgrade my camera, or my scope next.
3) Wait and plan rather than rush out and buy what you can afford now. I've got a lot of buddies who have been trying to learn imaging as long or longer than I have, some have spent as much or more time and money than I have, and are yet to take their first recognisable images. Hold out till you can afford that SBIG, it's worth it! I'm not saying there arn't guys who can do better with other equipment, but.... I have a great friend who's been trying to get started in imaging with a HX916 on a 10" LX200 for two years now, and sadly I don't think he's shown me one recongisable image yet.
4) Budget money for software, not just hardware! In most cases it's just as expensive, is even more important to the quality of your images, and has a much steeper learning curve!
5) Concentrate on the fundamentals first. Why would I wory about stuff like dithering or advanced color processing, if I can't even take a decent flat frame?
6) It's great when you can hang out with folks who know what they're doing. The handfull of experienced imagers in my area, have been cool, and often invite me to go out with them, but.... are usually buisy doing their own thing, or their schedules arn't compatable with mine, so I don't get to benefit from their imput as much as I'd like. I bought Wodowski's book, and and it's a great refrence, be prepaired to use it like one. You will read and re-read certain parts till you figure out particular tasks, which can be a challenge, because you won't have all the equipment or software he's refering to!
JDBraddy
Ok, I'm a newby too, I've been imaging less than a year now, and had similar aprehentions a year ago. I started using a SV102 that was originally bought exclusively for visual use, mounted on a GM8, had to buy a new laptop because I din't have one, and wound up paying too much for a used parallel ST8 on astromart.
Here's what I've learned so farr:
1) Great equipment makes a big difference, but you have to learn how to use it too. The only way to do that is to go image something, and you can't image anything untill you have a complete system, that is compatible and works together. Every system, no matter how expensive, will have to be tuned and de-bugged. Expect to have problems and frustrations, plan to minimize them if you can, but be prepared to invest more time and money to remedy them when they occur. The initial investment to get started in imaging is intimidating for us mere mortals with modest incomes, use the time while you're saving, to read all you can before hand, and deliberately plan how to spend your money to build the best system you can afford! Because unless you're rich, you won't be able to afford to buy and sell CCD cameras and high end equatorial mounts like some people do eyepieces.
2) The most important component of any imaging system is the mount. Nothing else matters if the mount sucks. I spent an additional $400 on accessories, just to get my GM8 to work for autoguiding, and it did work fairly well. It was the weakest most limiting component of my system though, so... My first major equipment change, was to sell my GM8 and buy an EM200 Temma. Invest the majority of your money in the best mount you can afford, and anything else you scrimp on, will be MUCH easier to make due with. I can now comfortably wait, as I consider whether to try to upgrade my camera, or my scope next.
3) Wait and plan rather than rush out and buy what you can afford now. I've got a lot of buddies who have been trying to learn imaging as long or longer than I have, some have spent as much or more time and money than I have, and are yet to take their first recognisable images. Hold out till you can afford that SBIG, it's worth it! I'm not saying there arn't guys who can do better with other equipment, but.... I have a great friend who's been trying to get started in imaging with a HX916 on a 10" LX200 for two years now, and sadly I don't think he's shown me one recongisable image yet.
4) Budget money for software, not just hardware! In most cases it's just as expensive, is even more important to the quality of your images, and has a much steeper learning curve!
5) Concentrate on the fundamentals first. Why would I wory about stuff like dithering or advanced color processing, if I can't even take a decent flat frame?
6) It's great when you can hang out with folks who know what they're doing. The handfull of experienced imagers in my area, have been cool, and often invite me to go out with them, but.... are usually buisy doing their own thing, or their schedules arn't compatable with mine, so I don't get to benefit from their imput as much as I'd like. I bought Wodowski's book, and and it's a great refrence, be prepaired to use it like one. You will read and re-read certain parts till you figure out particular tasks, which can be a challenge, because you won't have all the equipment or software he's refering to!
JDBraddy
Funding Member
