Laying a framework

Doug, Brien, and everyone else.

A question for followers of "organized" religious faiths. I have hoped to explore the existence of a creator but we keep getting bogged down in rituals. Let's come to an understanding.

Consider 2 men.

1 - A non-Christian but devout believer in God. A good man who follows the golden rule. Prays to God and is kind and fair to all his fellow humans. Lives by the 10 commandments faithfully. He does not recognize Jesus as his savior. Perhaps he is Jewish, or something else.

2 - A non-believer in God. A good man who follows the golden rule. He is kind a fair to all his fellow humans. He lives by the 10 commandments, not through conscience effort, but because he loves his fellow man and wants to do right by them. He does not pray, or recognize God, but otherwise lives a clean life and the lives of his fellow men have been improved by his existence.

What is the fate of these 2 men, and why?

Daryl

Daryl, ultimately God is the judge. He will reward people accordingly for their actions (Revelation 22:12). He is a God of justice, love, wisdom, and power.

That said, let's get to some other points based on the Bible that I believe in:

1) I believe that most of the people that have ever died will be resurrected, whether they were righteous or unrighteous. (Acts 24:15; John 5:28,29). After their resurrection they will have the opportunity to follow Jesus' teachings, and further helpful instructions by God in restored conditions, a new system of things (Jesus' 1000 year rule- Revelation 20:1-3,11-13).

2) When Jesus returns in his second presence, and then at the time of the manifestation of that presence, true Christians alive at that time, will be saved into the coming new system of things ruled by Jesus for 1000 years (Revelation 7:9-17).



The only people excluded from the above mentioned blessings are (remembering that God will be the judge):

1) People who were extremely wicked towards God's purposes. For example people who sinned against the holy spirit (Mark 3:28-30), like Judas, or like Adam and Eve (who sinned in their perfect states willingly- see Romans 5:14), or some of the religious leaders who had Jesus killed, who had seen his miracles/healings done by the power of God's holy spirit right in front of their face, yet turned against Jesus.

2) People who died by direct actions of God, during for example, times of judgement by him. This would appear to include, the people who died outside of Noah's ark (only 8 righteous people survived), people who died when God rained fire and sulpher down on the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah (Jude 7) (righteous Lot and his two daughters were rescued from Sodom and Gomorrah), and also people who reject Christ at his second presence when conditions in the world would be wicked, so that the difference between true Christians, and the rest of mankind, would be fairly plain to see who was on Christs' side. Jesus said that this time period would be the same as the days of Noah (Matthew 24:36-42). At that time only Noah and his family tried to do God's will, the rest ignored Noah's warnings, and did not get into the ark. The world was extremely corrupt at that time. God decided that he had to act to save his creation from ruin, and also to protect righteous people from the actions of wicked people against them.

These are my beliefs, other Christians/ other faiths may have different thoughts, and are entitled to their own opinions on this subject.

Brien

Well, I got what I think is a pretty open and thoughtful response from everyone except Doug.

Doug - I don't think you can discuss or logically debate creation. You are obviously brainwashed and we can only hope you are right, because there seems to be no other avenue open to you. You are stuck in your rituals and Bible study; you should go live with the Amish. Do you really own and use a telescope – the devil’s tool of deceit?

In one respect you are lucky. If your angry, jealous, vengeful God is the true God you win your everlasting life, but if my vision of God is more correct, then you still win because my God would not hold trivial things against you and certainly wouldn't punish you for doing what you believe is right.

Doug, you sound like the church of medieval times. Lighten up. If there is a God that watches over us, or cares about us, I really doubt if he is the a$$hole you make him out to be. I think he would be above that kind of behavior.

If God burns all the Jews in hell then I guess he probably has Hitler at his right hand and I for one want no part of it.

Brien, Paul, those were very good thoughtful responses. I do like to contemplate God but not in ridged framework where some suppose that ALL the answers lie in the written words of man.

I've said it before - If the purpose and plan of the Universe were laid out before us I doubt we could still comprehend it, let alone find it completely laid out in man written scriptures. If God gave us our brains then he made them inquisitive for a reason.

Daryl