Questions for Doug, Keith, Tom, and...

Jeffrey Counsil said:

Any of the believers...

The book of Genesis is that foundation from which everything else is built upon...

Jeffrey Counsil said:

Any of the believers. Maybe you can clear up some things for me. And as well for Clyde, John, and others.. Questions about the foundation of the Bible. The book of Genesis is that foundation from which everything else is built upon. If that foundation is weak, or wrong, then what is built upon it will be wrong, or even come tumbling down. So let's start with;

1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

OK, your belief has been established. But as we go we'll see it was clearly just the beginning. What comes next is is chronological order;

2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Yep, pretty bland I would say. But yet, where did "the waters" come from? [COLOR="Red"]The original language word for waters can be take to mean something other than literal water. Other words can also be user like vapors, gases, etc... In any event, the 'waters' were created in verse 1.[/COLOR]

3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

OK, but what was the source of the light? Remember, he hadn't made the sun and stars yet. [COLOR="Red"]Maybe God was establishing the the electromagnetic spectrum and the laws that govern it in verse three. Then in the next verses, he creates objects that produce light in all it various wavelengths.[/COLOR]

4: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

How did he do that? I mean was the light coming from all directions? And if so, when he divided light from dark, was the light only coming from one direction? If so, what bade the shadows form?

[COLOR="Red"]Who really knows. I don't, I wasn't there.[/COLOR]

5: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

OK, stands to reason. Ya gotta call it something.

6: And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

Ahh, so it might be the "waters" is space? Later on that just doesn't seem right though..

[COLOR="Red"]Again, the original language root word can be taken to mean the atmosphere. It is ironic that the atmosphere and water exhibit similar behaviors in motion, etc...[/COLOR]

7: And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Now that's one dandy trick. So part of the water is above heaven?

[COLOR="Red"]Yea, like clouds. Some postulate the there was much more 'waters' above that were filtering out more UV from reaching the ground. These waters rained down at the time of Noah's flood. Subsequent to that more radiation reached the ground. Speculation anyway...[/COLOR]

8: And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

So god made "heaven" after he created "the heavens and the Earth"? And then placed water above heaven?

[COLOR="Red"]Yea its like refering to parts in assembly instructions prior to actually using them. Easy to comprehend.[/COLOR]

9: And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

OK, I would imagine over millions of years plate tectonics would push land above the waters. But that's not how the story goes, does it?

10: And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

Reasonable names I suppose. But yet just above there were no "seas" (plural), just one place where the water gathered together. And apparently only one land mass as well. No islands, and no continents. Was that Pangea?

[COLOR="Red"]One can only speculate.[/COLOR]

11: And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12: And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Yep, plant life emerges.

So let's recap. Heavens (twice) and the Earth, plus light with no stars as of yet. So, since the Earth is known to have an iron core, and we know that the elements are "created" in stars, how is it that iron existed and there are no stars? [COLOR="Red"]If you creating a finished product, ready for use, you would not leave essential parts out, would you? In otherwords, God created the Iron in the core. He could do that you know, since he created everything else.[/COLOR] That's not to mention all the other elements needed to sustain life, let alone create it. Plants are life too you know. And we know for a fact water is made up of 2 elements. Hydrogen and Oxygen. Where did they come from? [COLOR="Red"]Ah, God made them! My kids can figure this stuff out.[/COLOR]
Oh I get it, those were formed at the time of the BIG BANG. Which would also (sort of) explain the light coming from all directions (as seen from Earth). So it is possible the Earth (as a chunk of stuff) could have existed before the formation of the stars. But yet a star is needed to warm the Earth and supply the energy for life. Hmmm.... Can you explain how that works? [COLOR="Red"]Can you only think in such simplistic linear terms? Why is this so hard for you. The earth's vegitation can survive the darkest of nights. Why is it so hard of a stretch to think that God could have created some heat prior to the creation of the sun? The atmosphere and oceans hold some heat as well.[/COLOR]I'm a little fuzzy with the chronological order here. And Doug says it is the "right order".

14: And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16: And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17: And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18: And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

Good heavens! So now comes the stars, the sun, and the moon all in one fell swoop! Now wait a minute, didn't god already divide the light from the darkness back up there in 4 and 5? [COLOR="Red"]Maybe he was creating the laws that govern light.[/COLOR]Maybe he had a senior moment and forgot. And since there is plant life, would the sun have already existed for photosynthesis? [COLOR="Red"]All plants I know of can survive a night without the sun.[/COLOR] And of course carbon, another element formed in stars, would already have existed too. We are carbon-based life forms, are we not?
And now onto the order of life as it evolved. Yes, it evolved and you will see..[COLOR="Red"]God created the elements that make up the physical univese and in His wisdom, he created a self-sustaining universe, i.e. starts produce elements, etc...[/COLOR]

20: And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21: And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22: And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

OK, we have aquatic birds (the fowl) that feed on the fishes. But yet we know now that whales are MAMMALS. So far, every creature lays eggs with the exception of the whales. Why is that? Now it gets even better...

[COLOR="Red"]Whales live in the ocean. So what.[/COLOR]

4: And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25: And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Yep, land animals appeared after sea critters. Is that not also what the theory of evolution suggests? And you'll also notice cattle come even after the other "beasts".

[COLOR="Red"]Yea so. Notice, they were created after their kind, not from other kinds like evolution demands. Get it cows from cows, whales from whales, birds from birds.[/COLOR]

26: And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Here it appears that god also created woman. The female. Either that or Adam was a Hermaphrodite. If that were true, then god surely had made a mistake since all other "land animals" seem to have male and female counterparts to reproduce. You know since he was apparently all done creating the animals in both male and female forms, it would just be reasonable to create man in the same form? OhOh Doug, can you explain that one?

[COLOR="Red"]Explain what? You also see that man is unique right? He is the only thing in all the universe that God made that was made in His image, in His(Our) likeness. Yes he created boy and girl animals, why not make boy and girl people too. Man is unique, you can see this can't you?[/COLOR]

31: And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Done, right? Not so fast! Now comes chapter 2!

1: Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2: And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done.
3: So God blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, because on it God rested from all his work which he had done in creation.
4: These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created. In the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
5: when no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no herb of the field had yet sprung up -- for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no man to till the ground;
6: but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground --
7: then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

How many times must he "form" man???? But this time it is just man, no female! Remember, Genesis 2:1 says he was FINISHED.

[COLOR="Red"]Genesis 1 is an overview of the complete creative process. Genesis 2 further drills down into the creation of man and surround events. A common practice in some literature forms.[/COLOR]

Jeffrey Counsil said:
The book of Genesis is that foundation from which everything else is built upon