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Beginner looking for a telescope

Started by rharman, 03/28/2003 05:35PM
Posted 03/28/2003 05:35PM Opening Post
I have recently been taken by the idea to start stargazing. I am looking to purchase an Orion, refractor telescope. The model I am looking at is the Astroview 100mm EQ. My question is, is this a good telescope for a beginner? Is there anything about this telescope I should be worried about (Cheap construction, too small of tripod)? Also, what kind of views should I expect? At 60X, what is the diameter of Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn?

Thank you for any information you might have.

Robert Harman
Posted 03/28/2003 06:06PM #1
60x will not be sufficient for Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, Robert. Personally, I find ~150x the minimum satisfying
magnification with Mars needing at least ~175x.

The 100mm Astroview is an achromat with very fast f/6
focal ratio and you may get a good amount of chromatic aberrations for which you may or may not mind. One good achromat around 4" you're talking about for planet is the chinese made Celestron C102-HD (or its Synta equivalent). But be sure you can get one from a reputable dealer and can exchange it if you get a lemon. At a higher cost, the Japanese made Vixen 102 achromat (same f/9.8) has a very good reputation.

Ron B[ee]
Posted 03/28/2003 06:35PM #2
I myself would have been ecstatic, if my first telescope was an Astroview 100 EQ.

It's not perfect, of course, but it will show a LOT of celestial goodies and do so without very much hassle/frustration.

To be honest, I'd probably have been equally ecstatic if my first scope was an XT6.

At 60x, Mars (near opposition), Jupiter, and Saturn will appear to be similar in size to the head of a push-pin when viewed from about 3.5- to 4-feet away. Saturn's and Mars's discs will appear smaller than Jupiter's.

Right now, Mars is quite small and will yield minimal detail in small-to-moderate apertures. It probably appears about the size of that same pushpin when viewed from about 10 feet away.

(Those distances are just ballpark/top-of-my-head estimates, mind you.)

I recommend nabbing a good barlow to supplement your scope (whichever one you get). The Orion Shorty-Plus is excellent.

Best wishes and luck.
-Dan
Posted 03/29/2003 03:55AM #3
I dont know whether there are reasons why you need to go with a refractor. For the money you are planning on spending you can buy an 8" dob and you will see considerably more with an 8" reflector than you will with a 4" achromat, this relating to all forms of observing, Planets DSO's etc. The Guan Sheng and Discovery scopes are excellent value for money and an 8" is an excellent starting point. I suggest you go to a star party or local astronomy club and try to have a look through both types of telescope. In my opinion and I am often wrong, a 4" achromat doesnt even begin to compare with an 8"/f6 reflector on the planets or DSO's, yet the cost is very similar. You can push the reflector easily to 300x on nights of good seeing, at 300x the 4 " achromat will be crying out for mama.

Clear Skies
John Bambury
Posted 03/30/2003 04:04AM #4
http://www.astromart.com/viewad.asp?cid=182287
http://www.astromart.com/viewad.asp?cid=182217
http://www.astromart.com/viewad.asp?cid=182171

These might be already taken, but if you're considering spending $500 on the Orion 4" achromat, you might as well get a used 8" SCT for a little extra $. Advantages: no chromatic aberrations, double the aperture, more resolving power, a bit more versatile. And if you buy used, you may get some extra accessories included...

Once you are familiar with the sky, know what your interests are; deep-sky, planetary, then you will have a better idea of what equipment will better aid you in your observations.

Try not to spend too much at first and don't rush! :-)

just an idea.
Posted 03/30/2003 12:48PM #5
Here's a high-risk suggestion.

Beginners approaching the hobby for the first time often think in terms of spending money, not investing it. They figure that whatever they spend, they stand to lose—which, with good equipment, is only partly (small partly) the case. With good equipment, it may barely be the case at all.

Compare the prices of new premium brands, such as Starmaster or Tele Vue, with what sellers ask for them used on Astromart. In many cases good used scopes don't lose much value. And if the scope is third-hand instead of second-hand, what's the discount for that. Maybe about zero.

Price aside. What do you want as a beginner. Minimum hassle. Maximum intuitive-to-use-it-ness. Genuinely exciting views. And an instrument which will make it easy to find things, not frustrating, while you learn the sky. That last part seems to me to have been under-emphasized in other posts on this thread.

Where does all that point? If you don't have much cash to speak of, then the 8-inch f6 dobs that others have mentioned may be the way to go. Probably a better choice than an introductory achromat, which is likely a long-term source of expense, because if you end up liking the hobby you will replace it with something better.

And starting with the achromat, you have less chance of liking the hobby. It compromises on both view quality, and ability to see dim objects, which is a big compromise. But most refractors do offer focal lengths short enough to maximize the ability to learn the sky--a big plus.

And the dob has compromises too, (everything has compromises). Collimation scares some people. Cool-down can be an issue. And an 8-inch f6 dob shows only half the sky or less compared to most refractors, so it's harder to find things and learn.

Here's the high-risk strategy. Buy a used premium APO refractor, a Tele Vue or Takahashi, on an alt-azimuth mount. You compromise on only one thing: dim deep sky. Everything else is maximized, low hassle, ease of use, retained value, stunning, amazing views of moon, planets, star clusters, double stars, many nebulae, and one galaxy (M31, you can also see some detail on maybe a few dozen other galaxies). And most important, learning the hobby and the sky is maximized.

Where's the high risk? It's only a low-cost strategy if you don't like the hobby and sell the instrument. And if you start this way, you are not going to do that.

Steve








Posted 04/01/2003 08:11PM #6
Robert,

I am a newbie at this wonderful hobbie. I also have an Orion Astroview 100 that I grabbed from the Orion clearance center. I can say in it's favor that I really enjoy the portability of this scope. I keep fully assembled it in a small shed in the backyard and all I have to do is take it out, wait for 15 or 30 minutes to cool down and start enjoying the views.

I know that I am missing nice deep space objects that owners of 8 or 10 inchers get to see, but since I am new at this, I'm still learning the sky and every new object I grab it's interesting to me. So far I've seen some Messier and NGC objects and I like what this little scope can do. The planets may not be the best on this scope, but they look decent on it after you do some tweaking with the scope. I like to watch Jupiter and Saturn every night before I start hunting objects (I live on a light polluted area) and with the help of a good chart I always find something fun to look at.

I had to tweak the scope (I dissasembled it, repainted it's inside black, recollimated it and fixed the focuser to get a better view) and it's been a lot of fun. The false color was very, very annoying when looking at jupiter until I got a sirius MV-1 filter, and my neck thanks the addition of a right angle finder. I agree that even if this scope is not top of the line premium equipment, it will provide you with a good view of the heavens.

Follow all the advise the experienced observers gladfully give (I also explored a lot of forums and sites before I got my scope), because they know a lot of stuff we don't, but the most important thing I consider is portability and ease of operation. I love the fact that I can take my scope at night when it's clear at a moment's notice, and I think that this is a very important factor for a begginer. I would think about it twice to go out if I had to wait 1 hour to start watching when I feel like it when I started.

Bottom line, get the largest scope you think you can handle easily. If a 8 inch sounds like something you can move around and setup on your place, go for it!. If it looks like a 4 incher that you just trow in your yard to start looking, then go for it too! You will always have a chance to trade or sell your stuff in this great place if you want something else (I've done it myself!).

Clear skies!!!

Saul